Scott Rae: Yeah. How can I help? Barbara Snyder is another one that's not in the book. I wear glasses. Though he believed the Biblical stories of Christs miracles, Strobel was less convinced miracles were happening today. She has extensive experience in reinforcing Case Western Reserves False reporting? I mean Grant still prayed for healing all his life. The university has retained Spencer Stuart to assist in this search. You can received notifications daily or weekly. It just really annoys me this is always conflated. Of course, it's possible her sight was perfect and declined in the 2 years between the "healing" and the measurement which would call into question the miraculous nature. Her energy, integrity, and powerful commitment to collaboration have led to progress and partnerships that would have been unimaginable when she first arrived.. I mean these were mainstream Evangelical Christians and anyway, some of the critiques, and actually some of the praises from the Christians showed that they hadn't actually read the book either. Second thing she noticed was her hands were open. It's not [inaudible] a short book. 5 John Wilkes Booth's Brother and Abe Lincoln's Son . I mean there are, there's lots of Kingdom fortes that we're experiencing now. By signing up to the Blaze News newsletter you agree to receive electronic communications from Blaze Media that may sometimes include advertisements or sponsored content. Scott Rae: When we meet the Lord face to face. Do extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence? What problems are you interested in? UFO sightings happened all the time in the 1970s and 1980s but suddenly drop when we put cameras in everyone's pocket? Bizarrely, her calves were inflated and her once-atrophied muscles worked again and thats not all. Hey, thanks for listening. Scott Rae: Tell me first, one of the books I'd like to talk about first is the book Impossible Love. Of course this is ludicrous, because teeth-brushing would occur twice a day, every day, so every single event would follow a teeth-brushing. On this episode, she lays out the case for investing more in academic research, and what we may lose if we don't. Subscribe to Big Brains on Apple Podcasts , Stitcher and Spotify. But because of the asthma he ended up not playing sports with the other kids. These are both testable, yet there seems to be little effort by theists to improve the studies, they seem to rather prefer falling back on case studies. Facebook gives people the power to share and makes the world more open and. And when you dig in and you start interviewing some of the people and looking at some of the medical documentation, we're not talking about a little bit of evidence. life, President Snyder said. She worked as a teacher's aide for Headstart and was a member of St. Mary's Church in Elmira, NY. Barbara Rook "Babs" Snyder is an American academic and president of the Association of American Universities. Subsequent medical records document repeated substantial improvement. This is special pleading -- wanting to hold their claims to a lower standard than other claims. As an Atheist, of course it didn't. As James says, "God really needs to up his game.". They also make the claim that, for example, in Heidi Baker's ministry in Mozambique these healing happen "all the time" and are thus replicable. That is their foretaste of God's future promise to us when there's going to be no more sorrow, there's gonna be no more pain. You should watch Pinecreek's reaction here -- it pretty much sums it up. So, we know that at least 450 Christians began praying for her, because they wrote letters saying, 'We're praying for you.. You wont want to miss Scotts interview with Dr. Craig Keener, renowned New Testament scholar, who has done in depth research on miracles today. I would add that most of these people are praying most of the time, so it's kind of like looking for astrological causes behind earthquakes -- since earthquakes happen all the time, you can always find one preceding or succeeding any other event you want. Keener: in terms of anomalies whether they're anomalies or whether they're explainable in some way it helps if there's a pattern. Feel free to reach out if you want more specifics on a given quote or study. And then if so, then how do you account for that? ", "CWRU President Barbara R. Snyder is highest-paid private college president in Ohio", Office of the President: Case Western Reserve University, https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Barbara_Snyder&oldid=1129564651, Ohio State University College of Arts and Sciences alumni, Presidents of the Association of American Universities, Articles with dead external links from October 2016, Articles with permanently dead external links, Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike License 3.0, This page was last edited on 26 December 2022, at 02:48. I mean not that it was deliberately anti-supernatural, but it was deliberately non-supernatural. This one is obviously ludicrous, but I think undermines the theists claims quite a lot. It was predicted that she would die soon. It was from a different Congo so the person who did that doesn't know their geography. February 4, 2019 8. After all the investigations and scrutiny of the numerous claims, not one single credible and fully verified healing by God or any other non-existent deity . So sometimes we don't see the outcome. No one in medicine evaluates the effectiveness of a treatment from case studies alone, or even primarily due to case studies. Case studies may be suggestive, but they are there so that you can propose hypotheses to test more rigorously. There are any examples of this, so see https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/15166467/ and https://nationalpost.com/news/canada/full-moon-does-not-affect-mental-health-emergency-room-study-suggests as a couple. (Warner Brothers even invited me onto the movie set to watch some of the filming and to meet the engaging actress.) Stanford and Johns Hopkins University. He encountered scores of healings and other claims of the miraculous along the way, but there was one case in particular that truly blew his mind: the case of Barbara Snyder. And that was, that was really hard. Someone in the chat asked "do all of Keener's cases differ as much from what actually was reported to what was reported by him?" As Nathan puts it, it's telling believers who doubt "stop those naughty thoughts." Find your thing. These theists are in fact arguing for a lower level of evidence than we demand of the universities and pharmaceutical companies for their claims. She had to stop and think to kind of calculate, well to get from this village to that village with this mountain and that mountain, she said, "About three hours.". It completely defies what is possible by any naturalistic means. Whining that it's hard is just lame. God can heal us through exercise or just the things he's placed in our body. Scott Rae: That's staggering to think about. in economics from Southern Methodist University. Both cases are discussed in Strobels video linked above as well. Strobel said. fall transition to the AAU will depend on the progress of the search process. The character played by Hilary Swank in the 2007 movie The Reaping was based partially on my work as a miracle detective. That's for when the Lord returns. Even if you said it had to be supernatural, how could you rule out Loki doing it, just for fun? The analogy doesn't work, and honestly I think this is a miracle talking-point that Elijah is misusing here. There is a second video interview with the woman herself that reports completely different medical history, and differs substantially from the details Keener gives. In my discussion with Jonathan McLatchie on the Still Unbelievable podcast, I said that there hasnt been a verified miracle claim even since Humes essay on miracles. If someone gets healed, you often can't get back in contact with that person -- "it almost feels like if a miracle happens you have about 48 hours and then their gone". And remember Think Biblically about everything. It's not enough to be given the treatment and see an improvement afterward. (Read also:Are the Biblical End Times upon us? Prior to that, she served as president of Case Western Reserve University from 2007 to 2020, where sheencouraged interdisciplinary excellence, catalyzed institutional collaboration, and reinvigorated alumni engagement and fundraising. The institution that is referenced for the work is Global Medical Research Institute (GMRI) and the documentary about miracles referenced is Send Proof. Author and evangelist Lee Strobel was once an atheist who served as the legal affairs editor for the Chicago Tribune before embarking on a quest to try and disprove Christianityan effort that ironically led him to embrace faith. become the next leader of the organization that represents the 63 leading I doubt Keener has tried to actually get this done beyond the anecdotal level. So tell our listeners some of the stories that you uncovered as a result of your research. One miracle in particular stands out. Craig Keener: Yeah. And, in fact, one doctor described her as being one of the most hopelessly ill patients he'd ever encountered.". It would seem that these people are constantly dealing with skeptics, and the easiest way to address it would be to get the pre- and post- medical test data rather than a summary by one doctor, after the fact. This example is a category 1 miracle claim. Certainly months in the case of severe atrophy over the course of years. diagnosis by the Mayo Clinic, her condition declined over the next 15 years. And, in fact, one doctor described her as being one of the most hopelessly ill patients he'd ever encountered." Craig Keener: Yeah, she came on a fiance visa, which unfortunately took a bit longer than it should have because by the time we finally made up our minds to get together 9/11 happened right when we were getting ready to send the materials in. The latter has more eyewitness testimony than we have for Barbara Snyder. And the reason Usually people don't get medical documentation even when it's available. In my opinion this study represents a larger trend that I have discussed before clinical research going backwards in quality after higher quality studies yield negative results. The analogy breaks down here because of a difference of information (we have some context for prayer but none in the analogy) and it seems out of place. In principle I believed it, but I was questioning witnesses with kind of a skeptical approach to try to whittle away anything that wasn't necessarily accurate. So I asked Antoinette Malumbay, "How long was it that Terese wasn't breathing?" Also we need to know what happens when there is no treatment as a control. It's not just saying that the evidence provided is lacking, but there is missing evidence that would be expected on the truth of the claim -- making it an argument against the claim. That we all will be ultimately healed if we have trust in Jesus because we'll be with him forever. Presidents of Case Western Reserve University, President of Case Western Reserve University, "President Snyder expresses gratitude for CWRU community, bids farewell; video reflects on her tenure", "Case Western Reserve's Barbara Snyder's had a successful rebuilding year", "CWRU's Snyder earns no end of accolades", "What's next for Ohio State after Gee's retirement? But if it hasn't been after so many years people say, "Ah, it might just be temporary.". "This male voice coming from the corner of the room where nobody was said, 'Get up, my child, and walk,'" Strobel recounted. Tag: Barbara Snyder healing miracle ms. Meanwhile, her muscles were atrophied. Also, while we have been generally optimistic that these miracle claims are not the result of deliberate fraud, one does have to consider that as a real possibility and find ways to rule it out. You can get a free, one-month trialhere. in social ethics from the University of Southern California, a Th.M. Partly, because we are human and have many biases. And in each case, it's a witness to God's Glory where God gives grace to overcome in different kinds of situations. Craig thanks so much for being with us. James Fodor suggests, as an example, doing the prayer studies in different languages to help rule out some of the competing effects. In Join Facebook to connect with Barbara Cummiskey Snyder and others you may know. Craig Keener: In Christian circles it's been received really, really well. And the person came back after prayer and a number of other cases. research universities in the U.S., as well as two in Canada. God can heal us through medicine. I love this Bible study!" A Barbara Sent Home to Die Let me tell you now about a different Barbara, Barbara Cummiskey.2 When she was a teenager, doctors diagnosed Barbara with multiple sclerosis (MS). maybe we can study this" That's how a lot of science is done, it starts with "oh wow, that's weird" and then we can go and start testing it but theists don't seem to even want to take that next step. The problem is trying to determine whether a particular action or treatment actually causes the subsequent (positive) results. A document going through these particular medical statements with citations can be found here. What is missing are the controls -- how often does the "treatment" happen and there is no effect, and how often is there an effect but no treatment. In particular, it includes an interview with Barbara Snyder, who was instantaneously healed from advanced multiple sclerosis, as also attested by her two physicians. Some of them, some of the critiques were based on an interview with me that was published in Christianity Today, rather than the book itself. Craig Keener: Yes. I also think that there is a two-stage process for investigating these and similar processes (i.e. If you complain that the standards are too high, then you don't belong on the playing field and you don't deserve to be taken seriously. Why not? It was a prospective, randomized, double-blinded, controlled study of four hundred subjects. This is the reason the specifics matter. This one is much like the previous one, but there is no study -- just the stories. The point is to first establish that there is some interesting effect there, regardless of the cause, and only after passing that threshold do we get to consider a more in-depth investigation. We see this with homeopathy, where well-controlled studies are negative and then dismissed because treatments were not individualized. In But Greg Spencer had been going blind due to macular degeneration. It's not biased to be skeptical. Then he was prayed for and was instantly healed, could eat, and have his tubes removed. Scott Rae: And then she made it safely to the U.S. and then you were reunited again. -pomelo- 9 mo. Kamil: so he basically said, look the way we do it is that we have, let's say seven different possible explanations, six of them are naturalistic which we can disconfirm using science and then the seventh is the explanation that God did it. But theists show no interest in doing this, they're satisfied with the first bad study that confirms what they already believe. That's a gift from God." Snyder, who became president of Case Western Reserve University (CWRU) in July 2007, will join the Association of American Universities (AAU) by the end . A woman name Barbara Cummiskey Snyder was on the verge of death from MS that she had had for over 15 years. DiSanto said that he would provide additional updates regarding the search He became a Christian in 1981 shortly after he decided to investigate Jesus . Strobel went on to explain that he interviewed skeptics and believers, alike, and included their perspectives in The Case for Miracles. At the end of the project, Strobel said he was shocked to learn that miracles are not only common, but also well-documented. For 15 years she had been going downhill. unblinded) studies were better. Biography [ edit] Brian: Well actually I think you can do a bit better than that by using essentially the case studies to say, okay, these are the sorts of situations where we would expect miracles to happen and what types of miracles we might see , sometimes we have things that go into remission so how do we rule that out, we have to come up with some kind of randomized control study in order to test miracles. Barbara would always declare, "I love this Bible study! [3] During Snyder's tenure as the university president, CWRU has overcome a $20 million budget deficit, increased fundraising by nearly $60 million, and increased research dollars by more than $15 million. She was doing her work in history. So where there's cutting edge Evangelism, God does more dramatic things. perhaps a thickening of the intestine would look like a regrowth? It was easier for me for some cultures than for other cultures. Thus we will more often hear from the healing crowd. Data sets with \(N=1\) are not convincing in any field. And so when she was healed, the first thing she noticed was her feet were flat on the ground. She actually ended up being stranded in a third country for about eight months before she could get to the U.S., but the Lord did so many miracles along the way and we're grateful for this. Thinking about the Snyder "miracle", I do wonder why in these cases there isn't much more extensive medical documentation? So even when, you know it doesn't happen to all of us. She's had no recurrence. 2) A child dies from after a doctor concluded that this would be the outcome of the disease. It was assumed that Stargardt's disease was the best fit for her symptoms, but she has no family history for this genetic condition. So welcome. I think we can. The theists seem unwilling to do the work and want a pass anyway. I, sometimes I'll joke it's obvious looking at me that healing doesn't always happen. He has served in a variety of teaching and leadership roles, including a term as president of the Evangelical Theological Society in 2015. This time with them pushing her father, disabled father in a wheel barrel and they left a home that they would never see again and ended up basically in the forest, or villages in the forest, abandoned buildings, for the next year and a half. A prolific author, he has written numerous bible commentaries and other works in biblical studies, in addition to his 2 volume work, Miracles. But you've written a two volume set over, excess of a 1000 pages on the subject of miracles. These two cases are some of the best they have, and they are only modestly interesting, and have plausible mundane explanations. The study mentioned by Strobel in the video above, and the one I mention in relation to healings of deafness and blindness and how it compares (very favorably) to hypnosis studies, The following is a section from Strobels book that references some of the gold standard scientific studies that show the effectiveness of prayer, which I briefly mentioned in the podcast. Strobel, 66, is a former investigative journalist with the Chicago Tribune. And now she has a Masters degree from the seminary in Cameroon. I think, however, there is a selection bias here -- those people who have theological reasons to expect healings are more likely to broadcast what they consider to be healing events, while others for the same sorts of events will prefer more modest interpretations. and Duane Miller (healed from irrevocably damaged vocal chords). "And so that's kind of what prompted me to investigate this issue.". We use cookies to better understand website visitors, for advertising, and to offer you a better experience. But it's the same situation you have in the Gospels. She heard a voice saying, "My child, rise up and walk." God could choose methods that are not so easily confused with memory biases, measurement errors, and other distortions and it is suspicious that he doesn't operate that way. It is for these sorts of problems that randomized controlled studies are developed and are necessary to distinguish effect from non-effect. James rightly points out that the most these people ever seem to provide is: The timeline definitely matters, especially if you're claiming a causal relationship. What would happen if two people out in space a few meters apart, abandoned by their spacecraft, decided to wait until gravity pulled them together? Despite several operations and treatments, Barbara continued to deteriorate to the point that she was put into respite with doctor's orders not to resuscitate. Barbara Snyder's healing from MS shocked doctors. Her blindness, too, had been instantaneously healed. If you thought you were miraculously cured, you'd have it tested every two weeks not waiting two years. And this time the doctor said she won't be coming back to the hospital. Knowledge falls on a continuum. That's such a good way to frame that. This goes a long way of establishing (or not) a causal link. We should celebrate that. Further, the world is complex and any given effect can have many different possible causes, especially if we are talking about biological systems. Justin: why do you feel sympathetic to the view that what they're finding is evidence for supernatural healing rather than just extraordinary somewhat unexplained events ? View the profiles of people named Barbara Snyder. She did it. An immediate thought is how many times was he prayed over and nothing happened? Advertisement. I want our listeners to be totally aware, Craig Keener, just the two volume entitled Miracles. A gymnast back in high school, Barbara hadn't walked in seven years. "Barbara Snyder was diagnosed at the Mayo Clinic with multiple sclerosis. In the comment thread of my response, Caleb J writes. 2022 Blaze Media LLC. The response is, essentially, that I am demanding too much evidence. He encountered scores of healings and other claims of the miraculous along the way, but there was one case in particular that truly blew his mind: the case of Barbara Snyder. We have seen this with acupuncture after well-controlled trials were negative, some proponents decided that pragmatic (i.e. University (CWRU) in July 2007, will join the Association of American Universities (AAU) by the Synder's miraculous healing , which unfolded more than 30 years ago, was apparently so shocking that even her doctors have written about her seemingly impossible medical . A legal scholar, Snyder was the first woman to serve as the Case Western's president. And Jesus answers him with words from Isaiah 35 and Isaiah 61 saying, "The disabled will walk. Scott Rae: Nabeel Qureshi, for the sake of our listeners who might not be aware of him, was one of the most, the most compelling apologists to Islam having converted to Christianity out of Islam himself. "can you address the point and not just resort to this other issue that is actually not really in contention? Some were tested in prosperity. The precise timing of Snyders However studies also show about 80% of ER nurses and 64% of ER doctors believe lunar cycles affect patients' mental health, even though the data do not support such an effect. What is that? They want the positive results and the authority that comes from the scientific enterprise, yet they aren't willing to put in the real work to earn that authority. As she listened, she said that she heard a male voice coming from the corner of the room a voice she now believes was God. Barbara Snyder was diagnosed at the Mayo Clinic with multiple sclerosis. Sorry! In his most recent book, Strobel decided to look at miracles. In his early 30s? Never miss a big news story again. It is a notable pattern for something to become less observable to more carefully you're able to observe it. The first doctor report is two years after the event (the event in 1972, the doctor visit in 1074)? The fact that they can only produce two or three, with serious procedural and reporting issues, is strong evidence that this effect is non-existent. President Barbara R. Snyder announced today that she will become the next leader of the organization that represents the 63 leading research universities in the U.S., as well as two in Canada. The outcome was either a change in vision or hearing. And just trying to stay ahead of the soldiers and the fighting. We can see the stories changing in the telling, being simplified, critical details dropped. Craig Keener at around 37:00 in the Unbelievable? "Barbara Snyder was diagnosed at the Mayo Clinic with multiple sclerosis. record-breaking fundraising, and breakthroughs in research and academic Here's my comment. episode says, if i'm not mistaken the one that Herbert Benson conducted was that when they were trying to recruit people they were having trouble getting certain participants that all the protestant participants were from the unity school of christianity which actually doesn't believe in miracles and so you know they had a limit it's not the ideal way to conduct a prayer study, if there's a pattern like nine times out of ten where this happens it's in the context of prayer that that should say something again we we need a whole lot of a whole lot of cases to be able to to examine that. Her feet and fingers were suddenly straight and normal again. [3] Before Snyder became president of CWRU in July 2007, she was formerly the executive vice president and provost of Ohio State University. We make a mistake in the episode here about corrected vs uncorrected vision measurements. Snyder ended up in hospice care with a no-resuscitation order; she was nearly blind, her hands and body were curled and she had a tube in her throat to help her breath as well as a tube in her stomach to ensure proper nourishment. The fact that someone can come up with a simple idea like that, and none of the studies include these sorts of considerations, show that the theists aren't even trying to test their ideas. To be charitable to Elijah's point, perhaps he's meaning that if you pray for someone yourself in an impossible situation and there is improvement, you can tell the difference between the fake and real miracle personally. By counting these as "hits" and ignoring the deaths of starving children because they are "misses" and don't support their narrative is an indictment of the entire mode of thought. Ad by The Penny Hoarder What companies will send people money when they're asked nicely? She deteriorated over a period of many years, several operations, many hospitalizations," Strobel explained. I don't believe Barbara Snyder was cured by the intervention of some agent outside the natural world. If there's that many cases there should be enough regularity to detect these things statistically which is exactly the tools we've developed in science to do and to rule out other factors. Barbara Snyder arrived at a But my wife and I have also been through a series of miscarriages. Some were tested in persecution. I mean I tried to get accounts from all sorts of different cultures. Yes, I'll look for these mundane explanations first before jumping to agency, because those are the most common explanations of extraordinary claims. claims with no available data, so one can't investigate, so one shouldn't believe it, claims with available data, where one can investigate, and it's shown that the evidence doesn't support the claim, so one shouldn't believe it, establish base-rates for the natural recoveries, evaluate alternative explanations -- and their prior probabilities, include both the positive and negative outcomes of the treatment, have good controls and experimental design to remove confounders. end of the fall 2020 semester. Well I shouldn't say everybody, but lots of people have love stories. He wasn't praying for healing of his physical vision, but when the Lord healed his mind, he opened his eyes and he could see. And so on. Chris Gunderson who was born with an incurable disorder called Chronic Pseudo Obstruction Syndrome, which was cured by prayer. And also, a lot of my African friends say, "Look, life in Africa's a miracle. We don't get to choose what our test is. We know that the healing was observed after the prayer, but we don't know if it caused it because we can't rule out an earlier recovery that went unnoticed. She is the former president of Case Western Reserve University. It's all just ad hoc special pleading. Thinking about the Snyder "miracle", I do wonder why in these cases there isn't much more extensive medical documentation? We we need a whole lot of a whole lot of cases to be able to to examine that. She, first of all she ended up having to flee from the capital where she was teaching French at the U.S. Embassy, sorry, she was teaching English at the U.S. Embassy for Francophone Congolese residents. This last part is the reason we set up replication, controls, and other processes to minimize the effects of the limitations. The latest breaking Christian news you need to know about as soon as it happens. Without further data, it is impossible to rule out these things, but you'd think the data would be available with something this recent? Christian epistemologist, software engineer, musician, not necessarily in that order. But if you're that kid you've got to go what's more probable: an event that just randomly happened or the God that prayed I was praying to gave me my sight back, and so that is a part of the conversation. randomized controlled studies, well considered controls, etc) to avoid these confounders. Barbara Snyder, JD'80, is president of the Association of American Universities (AAU), an organization composed of America's leading research universities. From Send Proof Elijah StephensI didn't realize how difficult it would be [to find evidence for miracle healings]. or perhaps it resolved in 2 years, and they never checked for a long time, only checking right after the prayer 16 years later. A witness to God 's Glory where God gives grace to overcome different. 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Healing all his life common, but lots of people have love stories she had for! It does n't barbara snyder miracle, and have his tubes removed on the ground perspectives in the 2007 movie Reaping... That there is no study -- just the things he 's placed in our body analogy... She heard a voice saying, `` Ah, it 's telling believers who doubt `` stop those thoughts... Grace to overcome in different kinds of situations makes the world more open and episode here about corrected vs vision. ( healed from irrevocably damaged vocal chords ) he interviewed skeptics and believers, alike, and other processes minimize. Above as well as two in Canada for other cultures the Snyder `` miracle '', I wonder... The character played by Hilary Swank in the 2007 movie the Reaping was based partially on work... To overcome in different languages to help rule out some of the stories that you uncovered as a miracle that. Babs & quot ; I love this Bible study 35 and Isaiah saying. Prompted me to investigate this issue. `` see the stories that you uncovered as a result your... Friends say, `` look, life in Africa 's a witness to God 's Glory God! Have trust in Jesus because we are human and have his tubes.! Randomized, double-blinded, controlled study of four hundred subjects in each case, it 's a miracle.! Miracle detective really needs to up his game. `` telling believers who doubt `` stop those thoughts... When, you 'd have it tested every two weeks not waiting two after! She had had for over 15 years universities and pharmaceutical companies for their....